The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

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Thoughts on the proposed change to mission selection

Poll ended at Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:23 pm

Change the mission selection to what was proposed.
4
67%
Keep it the way it is.
2
33%
 
Total votes: 6
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Connman234
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby Connman234 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:20 pm

Based on the thread so far, it seems that people are torn about switching the missions to just matched play or keeping them the way they are. With the way they are so far, the campaign phase is meant more to be done after the games conclude. If people are willing to try, we can make the next "campaign day" (May 5th) a week that we can switch over to doing the campaign round at the end. My only issue with that, is there are some people who normally leave early, so it is harder for them to participate in the campaign phase. If we do switch the campaign phase until after the games, it can possibly open up some flexibility for people to play during the week.

What are people's thoughts on that, basically keep the same system, but the campaign phase would be at the end and all pairings would be known beforehand?
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby Sandtiger » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:36 pm

Looking through the Maelstrom of War/Eternal War missions, they still remain different enough and the setting itself is different enough from normal that I think we're fine going to that, but some of that opinion is colored by playing with Tom X. on Sunday and not wanting a similar experience of both players feeling that the mission was a bit lopsided. One thing I really hate is when the mission itself doesn't feel fair and while Tom and I did end up having a great time together anyway, I feel that a great gaming experience should be the end goal at all times, and that was a bit in question at the beginning of the day on Sunday.

If we switched things to having the "campaign phase" be at the end of the day I'm also okay with that since it does lead to some more strategic decisions being able to be made over the course of a week, which I like. Collaborative decisions are a good thing in teams.
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby Draaen » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:40 pm

It seems to me knowing the scenario and opponent ahead of time really only changes two things. You can read the rules at your leisure and tailor your list to the mission or opponent. You already have the rules at your disposal so knowing the mission helps reduce the burden of knowledge which is a plus.

The list tailoring seems like the largest potential negative for the pressure it would put on people as it puts pressure to adjust away from your current list if you would be too good so you are not seen as unsportsmanlike or you would need to change your list so you have a chance or better chance at victory. If I wanted to run air cav but knew I was playing thunder run should I change my list? If I was bad at killing hidden characters because I am a static gun line should I bring more sniper abilities when I have to kill the warlord?

I think as people learn the system and the missions strategies will be developed to reduce the impact of an army which is unbeatable in a certain scenario. If someone is really good at defending a certain special location maybe you look at another location or wait for their good defender to attack somewhere else. If you plan on attacking a specific location or think an attack is imminent maybe plan ahead and bring a list that could compete in that scenario or a standard one if the map part of the campaign goes awry. We may just need familiarity to resolve some of the issues.

That said I wouldn't be opposed to it if people wanted to know ahead of time if they think that would make the game more fun for them. I'd rather everyone be happy and play the campaign longer.
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby CHAPLAIN T » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:01 pm

Im down to take out all missions that call for specific builds/restrictions ("This mission is best played without units that FLY", "defender should have twice as many points", etc). Im still in favor being aware of loose guidelines ahead of time. Even if its just simple like "next week, I gotta build an Attacker's list!". Or "next week, my team will likely depend on me to hold this territory. Time to build a defense that would make Dorn proud".
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby CarbonMagos » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:12 pm

My experience with narrative missions has always been a blowout one way or the other, so it looks to me like they really benefit from careful coordination between players ahead of time in regards to lists. I'm open to trying the new campaign round timing, especially with the forum, but my personal preference is to simply switch to the cities of death matched play missions. They're different enough from the usual for me at least.
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby Draaen » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:39 pm

We could also let a player veto a narrative mission. So if it was going to be a narrative mission which one player had no chance or would be unfun for them could change it to maelstrom or dawn of war. A random mission is rilled per normal but the player who did not veto automatically can choose to go first or second. They get a small bonus which wou kn d not imbalance the scenario.

This would stop the i cant win games but otherwise let people play the narrative missions which are balanced and keep everyone at the table for the campaign activities.
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I'm happy to play lower points levels with people who are staring out or building up new forces
Fair warning my doofy daemons have 3rd party models, scratch builds, old warhammer models and I haven't moved all their bases over to the 40k ones yet! Happy to switch to either Tau or White Scars.
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby BrotherRaff » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:55 am

I think we've got a good debate going here. I've not had vast experience with narrative missions but the ones I have played haven't always been the most balanced. As noted, that's ok if that is where both players' heads are at. I'd say that we need to keep in mind that narrative events are more about group storytelling, and as always: talk to your opponent.

I do think that, in the spirit of the campaign and because it looked SO cinematic, that the narrative mission for the Imperial Palace should be kept. Plus, it's the most strategic point on the map, it should be special. I understand that flyers broke that mission. Perhaps a tweak that makes the palace door a locked objective and you need to use the demolition strategem by infantry to "blow the gates."

I deeply oppose knowing the specific opponent prior to game day. That will lead to people teching for specific opponents. That is a miserable play experience in minis games, 40k in particular. Let's not do that.
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby CHAPLAIN T » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:50 am

Wait a second...Maybe we're overthinking this.

What if our Sundays conclude with campaign details that set up opponents together with a mission for the next week, and then those two players sort out what kinda game they wanna play? Cityfight Matched play? Weird Narrative mission? Let the opponents decide, yeah?

As long as they choose from the approved list of mission options (which may of course be limited by campaign actions), they'll be fine, right?
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby Connman234 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:13 pm

Thanks everyone for the feedback. So in summary, people are in favor of switching to the campaign phase to the end of the day. What I would like to possibly do, is have the campaign phase happen at around 5pm when we have a campaign phase. Hopefully, most games will be completed by that point and if they are not, we can try to push it back depending on the impact. I personally, don't want to have to do the campaign phases at 7pm, so I think 5pm is a standard time.

What this means is that our next campaign game day (May 5th) will be a Glory Day. Everyone will be able to set up games themselves, with the only difference is that you shouldn't play people on your team. You can decide the missions you want to do, and at 5pm, we will do the campaign phase.

For the missions, I would like some time to think more about them, but if both players decide they want to do a Matched Play mission, there will be no problem with that. With the switch to the end of day campaign phase, you will be able to easily talk about the mission beforehand, so it they want to do a narrative mission, they can accommodate.
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Re: The Talvir Campaign (Initial Thoughts Inquiry and Mission Switch Poll)

Postby CHAPLAIN T » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:35 pm

Love it.