Keywords and data sheets

"Wait...is that right?!" Why not ask? This is the place to share a rules question (or revelation) you learned at the table.
User avatar
Anacrucis
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:09 am
Name: Dave R
Experience Level: Experienced
Play Style: Casual
Armies: BA, RG, IoM, Nids, Eldar
Location: Waltham

Keywords and data sheets

Postby Anacrucis » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:08 pm

So keywords.

We have faction keywords, and, uh, the other kind.

How much do we know about how they function in the game, or expect them to function?

Aside from the fact that they both have "keyword" in their names, are they at all the same thing in any way? E.g. do faction keywords function as a subset of keywords in general?

I think the answer to the latter is yes, as many abilities target specific keywords such as "fly" or "<chapter>" ... but I'm interested in getting as much understanding of what we know about this as I can.
User avatar
AngelusSperi
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:37 am
Name: Jon
Experience Level: Experienced
Play Style: Casual
Armies: Marines (Blood Angels/Salamanders)

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby AngelusSperi » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:46 pm

It looks like the only difference is that one restricts your army (faction) and the other doesn't (i.e. i can't run an army of leman russ tanks and wave serpents just because they share the vehicle keyword).

But both can be referenced for in game rules:

Space marine captains reference <Chapter>. Chaos space marine's Death to the False Emperor references Imperium.

Quad guns reference units with the Fly keyword. Arcrifles (AdMech that had haywire in 7th) reference Vehicle.

So in game they just serve as binary reference points for special abilities. Out of game Faction determines if you're battleforged for matched play (though theoretically for narrative you can mix for a good story).
Image
User avatar
Anacrucis
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:09 am
Name: Dave R
Experience Level: Experienced
Play Style: Casual
Armies: BA, RG, IoM, Nids, Eldar
Location: Waltham

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby Anacrucis » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 pm

Another question unrelated to the topic title but still related to the same project (my efforts at making my own list builder ...)

Is there a "formula" for determining the "damage tables" for high wound models or are there unique ones out there?
User avatar
AngelusSperi
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:37 am
Name: Jon
Experience Level: Experienced
Play Style: Casual
Armies: Marines (Blood Angels/Salamanders)

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby AngelusSperi » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:12 am

It seems that the table starts when you hit 10 wounds, and you generally get stages at 1/2 and at 1/4 (rounded down, so a 10 wound rhino degrades when it goes to 5 and then 2), but there are unique ones. I know somewhere i saw a like 2 stage only unit, and there's a bloodthirster dude that gets more attacks, not less, as you damage it. It's pretty cool how flexible they can be with it, so it's worth looking at each unit.

Also worth noting that what actually degrades changes a lot by unit. You can generally count on movement going down, different units will have some combination of WS/BS/S/A/D go down (i would say M/BS/WS or A if one of those doesn't matter SEEM the most common). Sometimes similar units will go down differently (i know the Contemptor Dread and the Relic Contemptor Dread have different stats degrade). And on a single unit, the same stat does not always degrade (the Defiler has 3 damage stages, from 1-2 BS degrades but not A while from 2-3 A degrades but not BS).
Image
User avatar
MrScotty
Officer
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:55 am
Name: Scott Mechler
Experience Level: Advanced
Play Style: Casual+Competitive
Armies: All of Them

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby MrScotty » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:19 am

Yeah, it's all different. There's anther thing I see frequently tripping people up in that other previously universal rules are different on most models. Explode/Death Throes is a good example: Bigger things now explode more explodier, and certain small things don't blow up at all. Like my grot tanks! They just crumple up like a sad little rolling junkyard when killed. Gets Hot is another one: Typically GH weapons range from 1 mortal wound to Jack, You're Dead.
Game Preferences:
A model may assault upper levels of terrain if they charge far enough to climb them
All current beta rules in effect unless opponent prefers otherwise
I love setting up custom, fluffy scenarios, PM me!
User avatar
Anacrucis
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:09 am
Name: Dave R
Experience Level: Experienced
Play Style: Casual
Armies: BA, RG, IoM, Nids, Eldar
Location: Waltham

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby Anacrucis » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:37 am

MrScotty wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:19 am
Yeah, it's all different. There's anther thing I see frequently tripping people up in that other previously universal rules are different on most models. Explode/Death Throes is a good example: Bigger things now explode more explodier, and certain small things don't blow up at all. Like my grot tanks! They just crumple up like a sad little rolling junkyard when killed. Gets Hot is another one: Typically GH weapons range from 1 mortal wound to Jack, You're Dead.
I have noticed though that while "explodes" is different from, say, "containment breach", it seems to be consistent across models with the same-name rule. So on all models with "containment breach," it works the same way.
User avatar
AngelusSperi
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:37 am
Name: Jon
Experience Level: Experienced
Play Style: Casual
Armies: Marines (Blood Angels/Salamanders)

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby AngelusSperi » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:47 am

Anacrucis wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:37 am
MrScotty wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:19 am
Yeah, it's all different. There's anther thing I see frequently tripping people up in that other previously universal rules are different on most models. Explode/Death Throes is a good example: Bigger things now explode more explodier, and certain small things don't blow up at all. Like my grot tanks! They just crumple up like a sad little rolling junkyard when killed. Gets Hot is another one: Typically GH weapons range from 1 mortal wound to Jack, You're Dead.
I have noticed though that while "explodes" is different from, say, "containment breach", it seems to be consistent across models with the same-name rule. So on all models with "containment breach," it works the same way.
Actually, explodes varies as well. Many models are 6+ to explode with a 3" radius causing D3 Mortal Wounds. However, I've also seen 6", 9" and 2D6" for range and some things that do D6 Mortal Wounds instead of D3 and the Necron Command Barge only does 1. Some vehicles even explode on a 5+ and I would not be surprised if there was some particularly unstable thing that did it on a 4+ (I know C'Tan Unravel Reality on a 4+ that acts like Explodes, but since it is not written as Explodes! I'm not counting it the same as vehicles like the Leviathan Dread that in fact Explodes! on a 5+). The only thing you can be certain of if you hear that something explodes is that you probably want to be careful about killing it in melee (*cries*).
Image
User avatar
Eisenfresser
Member
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:18 pm
Name: Steven Hirsch
Experience Level: Intermediate
Play Style: Casual
Armies: IG Tanks

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby Eisenfresser » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:52 pm

Hellhound is a 4+! and good use of a CP re-roll, 'cause of course my Hellhound did a suicide charge against the enemy line.
Game preferences:
+1 to going first roll if you finish deploying first
All terrain is "statuary"
No First Blood - it's basically a bonus VP for going first
Current Beta rules

Army
4,500 points of Imperial Guard
2,800 of tanks alone
User avatar
AngelusSperi
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:37 am
Name: Jon
Experience Level: Experienced
Play Style: Casual
Armies: Marines (Blood Angels/Salamanders)

Re: Keywords and data sheets

Postby AngelusSperi » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:58 pm

Eisenfresser wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:52 pm
Hellhound is a 4+! and good use of a CP re-roll, 'cause of course my Hellhound did a suicide charge against the enemy line.
That's beautiful and i love it! XD

<.<
>.>

I miiiiight enjoy explosions a bit too much (even if they hurt me so badly lol).
Image